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  1. #1
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    Default Rotary Valve out of Spec, anyone know a good machine shop?

    Hey everyone. I just found that my rotary valve clearance on my 20+ yr old GTS is twice what it should be. For the past few months, it's been puzzling me as to why it was running like dog poo. So here it is... My question though is how do I fix it? I saw that SBT sells new RV valves, but would it be cheaper to send it off to a machine shop? Is there anything I can do myself? I fear that if I buy another valve, that it may still be out of spec, as the case could've worn as well. Do they machine the replacement valves with this in mind? I'd rather send it off to a machine shop and tell them exactly how much to machine off. Anyone got any contacts they'd like to share?

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
    SeadooForum Pro Strizzo's Avatar
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    You wouldn't machine the valve, you would machine or replace the rv cover, probably replace the valve while you're in there. Not sure if just a new valve and cover would do it, depends on the condition of your case.

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  4. #3
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    Yea, I didn't mean "machine the valve" lol I have an idea to machine the case myself though. If I got a flat piece of glass, like an old coffee table, covered it with grinding compound... i bed I could just rub away .25mm off the case lip in no time. This way, the o-ring groove on the cover would still be close to spec but the rotary cavity would be shallow enough to be within spec. I could periodically bolt them together and verify my progress. I also happen to have a piece of glass that would be perfect for this...
    The only problem I see with this is my laziness to COMPLETELY tear the engine down. I would hate to crack the cases, but am not sure how I would grind a 50lb motor. Maybe if I cut the glass and made a hand-help thing out of it?

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  5. #4
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    I believe SBT has machined exchange valves ready to go.

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robj View Post
    I believe SBT has machined exchange valves ready to go.
    But I feel that the case is just as worn as the valve. Getting a new valve may only get me half way there... Has anyone bought an SBT valve before?

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  7. #6
    SeadooForum Pro Strizzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDoSeaDoo View Post
    But I feel that the case is just as worn as the valve. Getting a new valve may only get me half way there... Has anyone bought an SBT valve before?
    That's not how it's supposed to be done, if there is too much wear on the case, you'd machine the cover for less clearance. The valve and cover "should" be softer than the case so the majority of the wear would be there rather than the case

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strizzo View Post
    That's not how it's supposed to be done, if there is too much wear on the case, you'd machine the cover for less clearance. The valve and cover "should" be softer than the case so the majority of the wear would be there rather than the case
    So you're saying the valve itself can wear? I thought S.Steel was way tougher than AL...

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  9. #8
    SeadooForum Pro Strizzo's Avatar
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    Are they stainless? Given how they fold up when stuff gets stuck in there, I would have guessed not.

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  10. #9
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    Unless they're carbon fiber, idk what else they could be. Certainly not aluminum.

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  11. #10
    Experienced Rider RodInEscondido's Avatar
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    Seems I have seen the mention of carbon fiber RVs here and the recommendation was not to use them because they may wear the cover and case more.

    In the 580s I have dug into it certainly appears the RV is stainless or at least not aluminum.

    I have not measured any of the ones I have apart yet, but the ponder sets in that if the gap is worn too large that, like in pistons/cylinders, the RV might be produced in slight over thickness. Much easier than machining the cover/case.

    Just thinkin'

    Rod

    29jul/1120 update

    I just measured the rv thickness of 2 580/yellow engines at .55mm/.022in. I do not know the standard thickness of stainless sheet or if it is worth the trouble to do a small run or one-off on some type of cnc setup ... never driven one.

    Thoughts now wander to making a jig to hold the rv cover in a mini-lathe to turn down the mating surface and groove for o-ring ... yet unknown if it will clear the bed of the lathe.

    Damn, gotta knock off this thinkin stuff and get out to work on something
    Last edited by RodInEscondido; 07-29-13 at 02:36 PM. Reason: add info
    age and treachery will overcome youth and skill

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  12. #11
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    That would certainly be the winner as far as choosing my next step. Any idea where I could come by one of these thicker RV plates?

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    Water entering the manifold is what wears the cover. The case side usually is more protected, so recieves must less wear.
    Keep in mind that scratches are OK, but wear is a more severe issue, as out of spec cover allows the opposite cylinder's vacumn to suck
    your fuel mixture ,and performance waynes (deteriorates). In spec covers make starters last longer too, as the motor quickly initiates startup. A cover with less tolerance will overheat the engine, that said, perfect tolerance is essential. Tuning becomes easy. I can highly
    recommend SBT machine shop as second to none, as I have personally visited their shop in clearwater, florida.

    If you flip your ski, always turn or right the craft quickly and in the direction on the stearn decal, less chance of getting water in there, so advise your wanta-riders of this proceedure: Look at the decal, swim to the side depicted and right the watercraft from that side.Show them where you keep your signal mirror if the motor fails to restart, pincher the water supply from jetpump to tow. Remove *plugs and crank til water is out of engine, Prime fuel, put plugs back in,and try to run the ski for 20-30 minutes to get all the moisture out of the lowers cases.



    Bills86e

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  14. #13
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    I believe this is an age-related issue. This ski has been in the family for over 20 years, and we've put quite a few hours on it. It has been hard to start for years now. This whole time I've thought it was carbs. Now I'm kind of kicking myself in the ass for not checking the RV clearance earlier.

    I looked into seeing if there were retailers selling thicker RV plates and had no luck. While it's an interesting concept, it seems that noone does this yet. I guess the only option is to buy an SBT RV cover.

    Has anyone replaced ther RV cover and still had it be out of spec? Is the case really that well protected? I'm out of spec by 1/4 of a mm.

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  15. #14
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    I believe mine is an age-related issue. This ski has been in the family for over 20 years, and we've put quite a few hours on it. It has been hard to start for years now. This whole time I've thought it was carbs. Now I'm kind of kicking myself in the ass for not checking the RV clearance earlier.

    I looked into seeing if there were retailers selling thicker RV plates and had no luck. While it's an interesting concept, it seems that noone does this yet. I guess the only option is to buy an SBT RV cover.

    Has anyone replaced ther RV cover and still had it be out of spec? Is the case really that well protected? I'm out of spec by 1/4 of a mm.

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    Can anyone tell me the thickness of a new RV disk? Before I order a new one, I'd like to know that it'll make a difference.

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  17. #16
    Experienced Rider RodInEscondido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDoSeaDoo View Post
    Can anyone tell me the thickness of a new RV disk? Before I order a new one, I'd like to know that it'll make a difference.
    On one of the RVs I measured above I did the solder squish test and it was .012 in, right in the lower of the acceptable .012 - .020 range. I do have another 89 SP with the carb off so I could measure it to give 3 samples. What is the thickness of the one you have? This would tell me that the RV thickness of .022 measured above should be pretty close to correct.
    Rod

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  18. #17
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    Thanks for the reply Rod! Mine measured at .02". As did my solder measured in two places with the valve in place (no oring). I just emailed waterparts superstore, and their rv valves are thicker than the one I have. Using their valve, I should be JUST OUTSIDE the suggested spec.

    Here's my plan to get dead on: I'm going to go buy some grinding compound. With the valve and oil pump removed, I'm going to spread a thin layer of the compound on the face of the flange. Then I'm going to rotate/rub the two mating flange surfaces together until I shave off about another .05-.1mm. I will do this with my worst valve cover, because I want to bring the block further into spec. Also, this will mess up the O-ring groove depth on the cover, and I have no way of correcting that. Then, with the new valve, I'll check to see if I'm within spec using my better valve cover. I plan to take extreme precaution not to get the grinding compound on the rotary face of the block. and with the gap between the two, I don't think it'll be a big problem.

    WISH ME LUCK
    Last edited by IDoSeaDoo; 08-07-13 at 04:45 PM.

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  19. #18
    Experienced Rider RodInEscondido's Avatar
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    I measured the RV thickness of the 3rd SP mentioned above to be .022in like the other 2. When I get done paying bills I will go out and do the solder squish test.

    Just for curiosity, what is the thickness of the new RV and is it steel or composite?

    Rod

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  20. #19
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    The fact that all three of your RV measurements are all thicker than both of my RV plates tells me that mine are indeed worn out. I'm not surprised, as they have a whole lot of hours on them (well into the 100's).I just bought a brand new metric barrel-style caliper accurate to .01mm to confirm my suspicion. SBT and Watercraft Superstore both claim their new S.Steel plates to measure .025" The difference between my plate and a new plate's thickness is half the width by which I am out of spec. Somewhere I heard that the carbon fiber plates are thicker, but that they also wear the block/cover faster. I will avoid going that route. On Sunday or maybe even tomorrow I plan to try my aforementioned grinding method I'll let you all now how it goes!

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  21. #20
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    Well, started to grind the cover to the block. Tedious and slow-going are understatements. Managed to shave off about .07mm today. Will continue later... BTW, the new valve was barely thicker than my thickest one. I think I measured them wrong before. Mine and the new one both measure about .61mm

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