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  1. #1
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    Default Premium or Regular Unleaded

    I am wondering what fuel grade most folks are using. My dealer told me to use premium unleaded, which is great up to the point of having to fill up two skis (min $50-$80) per trip to the water. My owner's manual says that non supercharged models can burn regular unleaded. My question is this: Can you appreciably notice a difference between fuel grades in ski performance?

    Thank you

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    Honestly I've never tried anything other than premium in my engines, but for the savings I don't think it'd really be worth risking the potential damage (and thus expense) that detonation could cause.

    If you do decide to use the cheap stuff...let us know how it goes

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    Always best to go with premium in any vehicle.
    Performance SeaDoo Parts - PWCMuscle.com

    Looking for OEM Seadoo parts? Try SeadooWarehouse.com

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  5. #4
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    Thanks Joe - you are indeed the answer man! I had to ask the question because I spent the kitchen remodel money on jet skis and my wife is giving me some serious grief!!! But, I am having the most fun you can have with your clothes on and LOVING IT!!!!

    More whiskey and fresh horses for the men!!

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  6. #5
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    Some guys over here use aviation fuel. Im not sure of the ron number for that. But regular is 95 ron. Then we have 97-98 Super unleaded.
    Runs much better on higher octane juice.

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  7. #6
    JoeZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrywillingham View Post
    But, I am having the most fun you can have with your clothes on and LOVING IT!!!!
    sooo you're suppose to wear clothes when on these things? oooohhhh guess that explains the rash...

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  8. #7
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    Your boats will run fine on 89 Octane fuel. Check your manual but pretty sure it stats that 89 is fine.

    Seen a lot of RXP RXT's 215HP run on 89 Oct. The lake we ride on the marina only sells 89OCT and they have no choice. Never seen any issues with 89

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  9. #8
    seadoosnipe's Avatar
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    Cool Fuel!

    O.K...I've read in awe, the great questions and debate over the octane we should be using in our watercraft. I don't think riding them with our clothes on or off, greatly affects the type of fuel we use, it will probably cause them to run a little hotter though.......LOL
    In the older models 787's, the manufacture states fuel requirements of regular unleaded with 87 octane (Ron + Mon/2)
    In the newer model (I looked at the 2005 4-TEC) the manfacture requirements are for 91 octane in the U.S., and 95 octane outside the U.S., (Ron + Mon)2....which I still don't know what all the Ron Mon stuff means yet.
    But anyway, what it looks like is that if your using an engine that is 4 cycle and turbo/super charged, then it's higher octane. If it's the older, naturally apsirated (carb) engines, then 87 will do fine........Also, I noticed the racing carbs you can mod for these things.....yeah, you guessed it, higher octane!
    Now, I wonder if my boat will run faster with no clothes on?

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  10. #9

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    For the two strokes, I can't justify putting in the premium stuff.

    But for the 4-strokes with forced induction, stick with premium.

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  11. #10
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    Actualy if you have a DI prior to 2001 the compression rate is so high you almost need to put in the hi oct stuff.

    Look at your manual it will tell you what to do. Or hit sea-doos web site. You really need extra compressition to take advantge of the higher octane.

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  12. #11
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    Default 2003 Series PWC's

    Still finding the great fuel debate interesting has made me want to dig even further, looking for suitable answers. This time, I choose the shop manual for the 2003 GTX 4-TEC SC, XP DFI, the GTI LE and RFI the GTX DI which run engine sizes from Rotax at the 717, 787, 947 and the 4-TEC series of the 1503 (man, what power that thing must have)
    Reading the technical data on these different fueling systems, from the naturally aspirated carb, the fuel inj., and the supercharged.........wow, I'd be surprised to see how much more muscle they can put under the hood of one of these things...........damn, put some wings on it and I'll bet it can fly!

    The manufacture recommends running 87 octane (regular unleaded) in all these PWC's except the 4-TEC. That tech chart specifies to gain optimum performance of this watercraft, run 91 octane but fuel with nothing lower than 87 octane.

    These findings are courtesy of the SeaDooForum website's shop manual on the 2003 seadoo for the above listed models.

    Hope this answers a lot of doubts about what type of fuel to run in our crafts. BTW, I always ran 91-93 octane fuel in my in-line, four cyclinder, double overhead cam, 1100cc motorcycle engine. Never knew what the manfacture wanted me to run. I just figured if it cost more, it had to be better!........LOL....
    Last edited by seadoosnipe; 09-11-07 at 11:05 PM.

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  13. #12
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    i bought my 2006 gti ( 4 stroke ) in april from a prominent dealer and fuel was one of the first questions i asked. i was told regular fuel was just fine. i used it all summer and knock on wood never had a problem, trouble starting, etc.. in fact a lot of the guys around here use regular, even some that have new rxp's.

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  14. #13
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    My 2007 GTI manual say's regular 87 but I like to run mid grade-89-91 thats what I put in my Hemi so I am filling both truck and ski at the same time. As far as detonation with reg fuel it is next to impossible with these new motors with all the computer controled sensors.

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  15. #14
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    Well here are my 2 cents... In two strokes,if you have a high compression engine and advanced the timing, than you should run high octang fuel. The normal is 87, unless noted by the manufacturer.
    With today's engines they will work fine on what is suggested. When I raced Jetski's with more compression they NEEDED the high octang to run at it's peak of performance. I used cam 2 and VP which was I think 105 octang, just to keep my superstock and modified happy. If you use the higher octang in a engine not designed for it, or in say a 150 psi compression engine then the engine just wastes what is left after the plug fires and out the exhaust it goes. The purpose is to have a more effecient burn at a higher spark fire in the combustion chamber. Advancing the timing a few degrees will help it be more efficient, but the higher compression is the key in two strokes. My race boats ran about 185 to 200 psi with larger cylinder studs and hi performance copper head gaskets, just to keep them together... the compression drop to 165 psi..tear down time ...usually about 4 race events including practice. I used 5 gallons of premixed fuel mixed at 32:1 in about 40 minutes! Top speed in smoothe water, 58mph on the 440superstock and 62mph on my 550 modified( Kawasaki standup ski's, 2 cyclinders). luckly I had a VP dealer as a sponsor(free fuel) I had 2 practice boats always in the water and used the monsters for race day...so now I only run 87 in my challenger for economy. Damn I gota get another sponser...lol
    Karl
    Last edited by kustomkarl; 11-29-07 at 07:07 PM.
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  16. #15

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    Default Too Much Octane?

    There is such a thing as too much octane. An engine that is designed to run on 87 oct may run less efficient on 93 oct. The fuel burn is too slow and engine feels a little sluggish. To that I've always said....SO WHAT!
    Better safe than sorry. I always use higher octane than is suggested in the owners manual. The higher octane won't hurt your engine just your wallet.
    Another thing.... how do you know you are actually getting 87 out of the pump? What if 87 is really sometimes 85 or 83?
    And another thing..... as our engines accumulate hours they also accumulate carbon on the pistons,head,etc. which raises the compression. What was originally designed for 87 may actually need 89 or 91 after a couple of years.
    And another thing(last thing I promise)....great job on the research Louis!
    Thanks, Dawg

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  17. #16
    kustomkarl's Avatar
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    Default Goverment regulated fuel!!! 87 is always 87

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    There is such a thing as too much octane. An engine that is designed to run on 87 oct may run less efficient on 93 oct. The fuel burn is too slow and engine feels a little sluggish. To that I've always said....SO WHAT!
    Better safe than sorry. I always use higher octane than is suggested in the owners manual. The higher octane won't hurt your engine just your wallet.
    Another thing.... how do you know you are actually getting 87 out of the pump? What if 87 is really sometimes 85 or 83?
    And another thing..... as our engines accumulate hours they also accumulate carbon on the pistons,head,etc. which raises the compression. What was originally designed for 87 may actually need 89 or 91 after a couple of years.
    And another thing(last thing I promise)....great job on the research Louis!
    Thanks, Dawg
    Hey Dawg, little info for you: Back in 1992 I worked part time for a company called Salbolt, as a petrolum inspector. I worked up and down the Hudson River in New York gauging the barges and ships with petroleum products. I would guage the tanks and take samples to Kenilworth N.J. The samples were analyzed for product quality of the fuel, and graded on a scale of points. If the fuel didn't meet standards it could not be sold for the octane posted. This is regulated by the goverment so regular isn't in the high-test tanks making more profit. I also tested on site specific gravity of the fuel.The specific gravity helped calculate the product quality and help determine what grade of fuel it was. Some companies would refuse the product if it didn't meet their standards, like Hess, or Sunaco.These companies were very fussy.! 1 point below their set standard it got ...refused! It would be resold to Pricechopper or Citgo because they had standard that ranged to 5 points below the standard set. the barge would be taken to the next buyer down river. I would go to them and re-guage the product. Now it was called not Hess but Price Chopper....cheaper gas based on the standard of quality of the fuel.Yes the price was cheaper than Hess at the pump...because of the standard...regulated by the Goverment...and it had to be still labeled as 87 Octane as it was just a cheaper grade...by standard.

    ok I'm off my soap box...
    Karl

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  18. #17
    seadoosnipe's Avatar
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    Default O.k....my turn!

    This thread originated in August, so it’s good to see that an old thread can generate new life and vigor in our members. I love it when a thread gets hot!...What fun. Now, this is it, the part where I not only throw in my 2 cents but I get to go do some homework before I throw it in there!.........I like to find the facts for us all to chew on.
    Your correct Karl. If you look on the side of the fuel pump, you'll notice a sticker from the agency who did the sample and the date it was done. It's required by law. I too have fuel testing experience. I was the "oil king" on board a US Navy destroyer where I was responsible in the inventory, control and testing of 278,000 gallons of diesel fuel.
    The below material is reference from the Louisiana State Governments web site, training on fuel octane. I hope it sheds some light on the octane rating for ya’ll. I thought it was pretty interesting. You’ll notice that diesel doesn’t have an octane rating, it’s rated in cetane.



    Fuel octane requirements for gasoline engines vary with the compression ratio of the engine; diesel cetane requirements also vary with the compression ratio. Engine compression ratio is the relative volume of a cylinder from the bottom most position of the piston's stroke to the top most position of the piston's stroke. The higher an engine's compression ratio, the greater the amount of heat generated in the cylinder during the compression stroke.
    Posted octane numbers on gasoline pumps are a result of testing fuel performance under laboratory and actual operating conditions. The higher the octane rating on fuel the less volatile (evaporative qualities) and the slower the fuel burns. Higher octane fuel contains more POTENTIAL energy but requires the higher heat generated by higher compression ratio engines to properly condition the fuel to RELEASE that higher potential energy. In the refining process, fewer gallons of higher octane fuels are yielded from a barrel of raw crude.
    If fuel octane is too low for a given compression ratio, the fuel prematurely and spontaneously ignites too early and the fuel charge EXPLODES rather than BURNS resulting in incomplete combustion. The net effect is a loss in power and possible engine damage. The operator hears an audible "knock" or "ping", referred to as detonation. Detonation may vary from a faint noise on light acceleration to a constant, deep hammering noise while driving at a constant speed. Improper timing adjustments, vacuum leaks, or excessively lean fuel mixtures may also cause detonation.
    Many vehicle owners believe that higher octane fuels are better for their vehicles since they are labeled "PREMIUM." The logic is that since it is a premium fuel it must be better. In reality, the premium label originates from the higher cost to refine and the resultant higher retail cost. Some refiners label their high octane fuels "SUPER." Some owners think that these fuels will make their vehicles more powerful. Only engines with high compression ratios can deliver all the potential energy from higher octane fuels! Always consult the manufacturer's octane recommendation to determine the proper octane requirements for any given vehicle. Generally, engines with compression ratios of 9.3 : 1 or less will safely operate with unleaded 87 octane fuel. Engines with higher compression ratios usually require higher octane fuels.
    Many owners who operate vehicles designed to operate on 87 octane fuel experience ping and knock. They usually "fix" this problem by purchasing the higher priced, higher octane fuels. Most owner's manuals indicate that some light and intermittent ping is normal but that heavy or sustained ping or knock should be attended to by either purchasing the correct octane fuel or servicing the engine.
    Most fuel refiners blend fuels for geographic areas and adjust their blends seasonally. These blending techniques compensate for the decrease in oxygen content with an increase in altitude and compensate for volatility during the warmer or cooler seasons. Significant ambient temperature changes (40 degrees Fahrenheit) or altitude changes (4,000 feet) may cause some serious engine detonation. This problem is usually corrected by filling the tank with "local" fuel that has been properly blended for season and altitude.
    Last edited by seadoosnipe; 11-29-07 at 10:46 PM.
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  19. #18

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    Default Octane

    Hi Karl,
    Hi Louis,

    I'm confused. Are you guys agreeing with my views on octane ?

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  20. #19
    seadoosnipe's Avatar
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    Default Views and opinions!

    Well, of course. Not with all of it, from you or Karl. But you both have merit to your statements.
    Last edited by seadoosnipe; 11-30-07 at 10:23 PM.

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  21. #20
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    Default

    Well I am just stating about what I learned first hand. This is not hear say or it could be....At that time and to todate, if it says it is 87octane at the pump it is ....if it is 91 or 105....it is! If it says diesel lt is. If something funny is going on at the pump or illegal, someone is doing something they shouldn't. Fuel is set by the goverment and they set the standards. The same as ethenol, the standards are set by the goverment. What Louis/seadoosnipe says from his research is 100% on. His point is from research on the standards and mine is the same...just my viewpoint explained in my words. Same thing different angle.

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  22. #21

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    Default Octane Standards

    What, if anything, happens to gasoline that has sat around too long. By this I am refering to what I call " stale" fuel. Does time have an effect on octane?
    Dawg

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  23. #22
    seadoosnipe's Avatar
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    Default .....good question

    I'm not to sure how to answer that one. But it's a good question. I do know that it's not the liquid that burns, it's the vapor that the liquid creates. That much I've already researched. So if evaporation takes place on fuel sitting around, the logice tells me that, like water, it'll just evaporate until it's gone, with the exceptions of the additives.
    No research went into that idea, it's just an opinion.

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  24. #23
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    No Octane does not dissipate as fuel evaporites. Only the additives collectively condence, that are added from the refineriers. What is left when fuel evaporites it the solids that don't evaporite. It is mistaken as "varnish" as it is similar in odor to varnish. Stabilizers help maintain the properties of the fuel and aid in it to not evaporite. This was told to me by one of the chemist that worked at the Lab that did all the samples of fuel. I was very interested in fuel properities as I was on the JetSki racing circuit at the time, and I was looking for an edge.
    Karl

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  25. #24

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    Default Still Kunfused By Karl

    Hi Karl , Dawg here......
    What's confusing me is you state (the way I read it) that fuel is tested and has to meet quality standards set by the gov. So far...so good. But then you go on to say that a co. like Sunoco will only accept highest quality fuel and there are others companies that will accept fuels that tested lower in quality and sell it at a cheaper price. You go on to say that these lower quality fuels HAVE to still be labeled 87 even though they have been tested and proven to be of lesser quality. Here is where I get confused. It seems to me that you are saying that 87 octane at one gas station might not really be 87 at another which to me would validate my paranoia concerning the actual octane of the fuel we are buying at the pump. You later say that if the pump states your buying 87... it is has to be 87. If the last statement is true then the octane of the fuel is not affected by the quality of the fuel. If the octane is the same regardless of quality then is there a downside to buying the lesser quality fuels? Thanks, Dawg

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  26. #25
    kustomkarl's Avatar
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    The goverment standards of fuel are the standards set as a minimum standard. The octane will always be the same. What the fuel companys have as their standards is based on the additives added by the refineries.Some fuels have additives that help the fuel burn cleaner at lower temptures, or higher temptures, dependent on the market place. Hess, Sunoco and Texaco have their own standards that are set higher than the bare minium. PriceChopper back in the 90's, in the northeast was a small company that had low standards compared to these 3 huge companies. These companys were strickter than the lower brands with a larger distrubution network. All fuel must meet the basic goverment standard. The big guy's won't sell Minium standard fuel. They would pass it along to the little guys who were glad to have it. The bigger volume you are the, picker you can be because you get your price at the pumps, based on volume. PriceChopper had say 200 gas stations vs. say 4000 Hess gas stations. Better fuel or higher standards equals more profit in the long run because you could charge a penny or 2 more per gallon. no big deal, but figure that by say 500,000 gallons a month. When you buy fuel it's the additives that make the difference. All the big guy's add their own additives. Where as say, PriceChopper, add none. and it is usually 2-3 cents cheaper per gallon.

    Here is a easy way to explain it ...it's kinda like beer...tons of company make it ...usually the same alcohol content (goverment set)...different additives, different taste...higher or lower price, based on brand because of the process...
    Get it now?
    Karl

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