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seadoosnipe
05-23-10, 10:57 PM
Many members have asked me about the brand of oil I use. I have the 1997 Challenger and the 1997 GTX, both with the 787cc Rotax engine.

When I bought the Challenger in 2007, the previous owner said he had the boat serviced once a year and only used XP-S oil. When I brought it home, I found out there was no local dealership that sold the XP-S oil. The nearest Seadoo dealer to me is in Gulf Shores. Which is about a 2 hour drive from my home. I thought about going to get a few gallons but then decided, if I ran out, what would I do in a pinch. So, I decided to see if I could find another oil that met BRPís requirements.

One day I was in Walmart, getting oil and a filter for my truck. I spotted the Quicksilver oils and started reading the back label. In the first paragraph, it stated that it met all requirements for Seadooís 2 stroke motors. This oil is not NMMA (National Marine Manafacturers Association) or TCW-3 ashless oil.

There have been many members PM me and say they canít find this oil in their local Walmart. If you want this oil, you can try to order it through Walmart online or go to the store manager and make a request for him/her to order it for you. From what I understand from a member that ordered it last year, all you need is the SKU number.

Tonight I went to Wally World and took the time to go by and get these numbers and took a couple pix.

The ďFull SyntheticĒ costs $37.97 at my store. The number is 74506167708 and on the back of the bottle, it has a part number listed as 92-858015Q03.

There is also a mineral oil with synthetic additives that Quicksilver sells, that sits right beside the Full Synth. It runs $27.97. The SKU number for it is 74506167702 and the part number on the bottle is 92-858033Q01.

I like this oil. Itís convenient for me and after pulling down my 787cc last year, the pistons tops were so clean, I could read the stamped piston size and the direction marker on it. Iím not saying itís better than any other oil. Iíd probably run AMSOIL if it was local. But I donít want to get caught off guard with no way to take out my toys because I ran out of oil.

Johnson8537
05-26-10, 12:24 AM
wow... good to hear.. I have always ran the seadoo stuff and it has just went up to $80 a gal at my local dealer! I will check walmart!

RFoster130
05-27-10, 09:55 AM
$80 is crazy. It is 47 at the dealer here.

seadoosnipe
05-27-10, 11:54 AM
I lived in Portland for a few years. I can tell you outside it being one of the only states that won't allow you to pump your own gas (when I was there anyway), you pay double, if not triple, the price on stuff you can buy in the South or Southeast. It was really expensive living up there.

And before someone asks, I lived at 89th and Sandy Boulevard.:cheers:

scooper77515
05-27-10, 02:10 PM
Thanks a million snipe!!! My xp-s also went up to $70. About twice what i want to spend. Im gonna ask my walmart to order me a couple gallons.

scooper77515
05-27-10, 10:02 PM
OK, hate to toss stuff into the mix that may confuse, but I can get this stuff for $17 a gallon, yes, SEVENTEEN BUCKS per GALLON. If it meets all the criteria, I can get this stuff all over, any time, and cheap.

I don't know all the ATI, TCP, API, NMMCA or whatever codes, and don't plan on guessing.

so will these work? I see two different colored bottles, but I think they are exactly the same thing. Posting pics of both just in case someone sees something I do not see.

At this price, even if it won't mix with XPS, I would be willing to drain the tank and start over with this stuff.

RFoster130
05-27-10, 10:09 PM
To me, that looks like it meets the criteria. It specifically states approved for seadoo. It states it is injector oil. It states it meets API. It is also full synthetic and states not for outboard motors. should work fine. Where did you find it?

RFoster130
05-27-10, 10:11 PM
Found this:

http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20077.pdf

Dr Honda
05-28-10, 08:15 AM
Well... it's not certified API-TC... but I like the fact that in big bold print is says... "Do not use in marine outboard engines." That verifies that it's not TC-w3.


Scooper, Where did you find it at?

scooper77515
05-28-10, 08:32 AM
Academy. I have seen it at all the local stores.

It is generating lots of interest, so can I assume it is good for our use?

If you guys cannot find it, I can buy it in bulk and ship it to you and probably STILL be cheaper than XP-S AND Quicksilver.

Of course, as is typical with ANYTHING I buy and like...I will buy it all off the shelves and they will quit stocking it :ack:

shockerfd
05-28-10, 09:36 AM
I switched to the Quicksilver synthetic blend because Snipe uses it. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. My dealer was a good ride away as well and inconvenient.

I was going to post this tidbit of info last summer but never did. Last summer was the first summer on a new engine. I was extremely anal about doing plug checks. For some reason my plug color with the Quicksilver was much better to read than with the Seadoo stuff. I don't know what that means technically but I can only go by what I saw. Obviously the carb settings determine rich or lean conditions. Settings were dialed in and left alone. With the Quicksilver the plugs looked better and cleaner. I'm perfectly content with Quicksilver and Walmart is 5 minutes from my house.

scooper77515
05-29-10, 04:07 PM
So have we confirmed that this cheap stuff is appropriate? If so, do I need to claen my system before I add it or just wait till the tank is almost empty?

popasodatastie
05-30-10, 11:34 AM
I would say you would be ok using the Mystik becuase in type it says "Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2-Cycle Personal Watercraft Engine Oil far exceeds Personal
Watercraft engine requirements for an API TC, JASO FC and JASO FD quality oil. An then in the for uses section it states
"For use in all air-cooled or liquid-cooled 2-cycle (Injector or Premix) Personal Watercraft engines
including those manufactured by Sea Doo, Kawasaki, Polaris, Yamaha, and other original equipment
manufacturers. Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2-Cycle Personal Watercraft Engine Oil is ideal for engines
operating in high temperatures and where performance demands the most from your oil.

With reading that i would say it would work in all seadoo water craft Becuase although it meets the requirement it also exceeds the American Petroleum Institute Standards.

Scooper Use it and just have the oil low in the tank and add on top.

noswal_j
05-30-10, 11:57 AM
Currently I have half a tank of Seadoo's Mineral oil in my oil tank. Am I able pour Seadoo's Fully Synthetic oil in or do I need to drain the fuel tank? What would be the benefits of switching over? Is there that much of a difference it would be woth it? :confused:

firemann32
05-30-10, 12:27 PM
I've been using the Quicksilver PWC oil, you can't find it at local Wal-Marts around me, which is suprising since I live in Springfield, MO and I'm surrounded by lakes but you can get it at Bass Pro Shops for $30 a gallon.

My question is, how many tanks of fuel can I run before I need to fill my oil. I always fill it up whenever I put fuel in it but is that really necessary?

Does anyone have any knowledge on that subject or can you point me in the direction of a thread that might shed some light on that subject.

popasodatastie
06-01-10, 10:55 AM
well it all depends on your riding style if your full throttle it will use more oil than just putting around since i don't know what kinda water craft you have or as far as an engine size i may have to go with about 2 tanks of gas may drop the level of your oil to the low mark!

daverade
06-06-10, 03:56 PM
sweet... i went to wal-mart and all they stock was the outboard 2 stroke... i asked them to order the synthetic stuff and they all looked at me like I was retarded.. im gonna try the bass pro up the street!

daverade
06-06-10, 07:13 PM
good afternoon... SNIPE will you check your p/n's and upc codes please... looking online when i pull up the full synthetic it is giving me the..Q01... according to you the full synthetic is QO3...??? so just went down to bunk bass pro asked them if they would order it for me said i would take a few cases of it...they did stock the outboard stuff on the shelf.....they basicaly said no, and told me to buy it online.....so being super buthurt about this i drove all the way to the other side of town to trusty Wal-Mart, looked on their shelves they too had quarts of the outboard motor stuff so we went to the parts counter asked for a manager so we could order it... took snipes upc and p/n with me... they too were butf#*k's about it... but even better said we dont even carry that brand..i reply you do its right over there on the shelf, i need the gallon 2-stroke full synthetic.. he told me they couldnt get it, they werent alowed to order special...WTF how did you guy's get these places to order this stuff?????

daverade
06-06-10, 07:31 PM
everywhere i have located it online says "full synthetic" 92-858036Q01????????????????

scooper77515
06-06-10, 08:40 PM
Quit harrassing Seadoosnipe. He is on vacation with his family. Anything you pm to him this week will not be responded to until he gets back from vacation.

So chill...he will answer your questions when he gets back in town. :cheers:

daverade
06-07-10, 12:20 AM
lol...who's harassin tha snipe??? anybody got any input about the oil situation?

Plywood
06-07-10, 01:02 AM
Myself and a friend has used Quicksilver for years in main engine outboards for boats and I have used it in my Jet Skis.

I have heard a few times that it is the same thing as Mercury (old style) oil. If that's true then those are the two oils I've used for years with no problems in both my jet skis.

We know them to be a little stickier, so for trolling motors they don't work good, but for running the crap out of stuff they are great.

scooper77515
06-07-10, 07:41 AM
Not harrassing, per se, but if you ask him for p/n and upc codes, you won't get it till he gets back.

He made it clear that his wife won't let him log in while on vacation...:ack:

daverade
06-07-10, 10:11 AM
well, im sure somebody that logs on frequently, has a bottle of this stuff layin around that they recently picked up!!!

shockerfd
06-07-10, 10:21 AM
well, im sure somebody that logs on frequently, has a bottle of this stuff layin around that they recently picked up!!!

I use this stuff and have it at home. I'll try to remember to get the number off the jug when I get home.

daverade
06-07-10, 10:24 AM
sweet... that would be knarley!

popasodatastie
06-07-10, 11:31 AM
the upc you will want for walmart is Leading small7 then 4506167708 small 1 thats for full synthetic quicksilver

Jimimad
06-11-10, 05:44 PM
maybe this will help ?
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=28403

ProbeGT
06-11-10, 05:54 PM
You can also order it from most mercury dealers.

I ordered mine there. 2 cartons of 3 X 1gallon, full synthetic, for 34.99$ cnd each gallon. Very good deal I think.

daverade
06-17-10, 05:04 PM
think for this year i'll be runnin the xp-s blend.... having absolute hell gettin this stuff in the valley... nobody is willing to order it for me, and have a dealership across the street from my haus...literally could walk there in about 2 minutes, seem's the best thing for me to do!!!!!

LouDoo
06-22-10, 11:40 AM
The old oil debate again.

I'm going to throw something out.

I have a 96GTI, I bought it from a friend of mine, who purchased it new.

He had always used, since the ski was new, and I have continued to use; "Castrol Super Outboard Motor Oil". This is the oil that the dealer recommended back in 96.

The oil was developed by Castrol especially for SkiDoos and SeaDoos, and was approved by Rotax for use in their engines. The oil is manufactured in Canada.

The ski is 14 years old and I have never had to work on the engine or had engine work done. It had the original spark plugs until the year.

The oil is mineral based, and I think that it is no longer manufactured. The last case I bought I had to mail order, but it was only about $3.50 a quart.

Lou

daverade
06-22-10, 11:51 AM
du whhat na? are you serious... original spark plugs...from 96??? you gotta be sh*##in me...that may be some kind of world record or something...longest lasting 2 stroke spark plug!!! your b/s ing right?

LouDoo
06-22-10, 01:41 PM
Can't be sure about the spark plugs, I have only had the ski 2 years, but thats what the previous owner told me.

scooper77515
06-22-10, 01:54 PM
I swap plugs every other trip out. I cannot imagine a plug lasting all season in a two stroke, much less since 1997 :confused:

But, stranger things have happened.

popasodatastie
06-26-10, 01:33 AM
I guess it really doesnt matter what oil brand you get their all made to the same spec number its just a matter of whats cheap and what is readly available just make sure it's to API-TC standards and not NMMA or TWC-3

seadoosnipe
06-26-10, 04:42 PM
The old oil debate again.

I'm going to throw something out.

I have a 96GTI, I bought it from a friend of mine, who purchased it new.

He had always used, since the ski was new, and I have continued to use; "Castrol Super Outboard Motor Oil". This is the oil that the dealer recommended back in 96.

The oil was developed by Castrol especially for SkiDoos and SeaDoos, and was approved by Rotax for use in their engines. The oil is manufactured in Canada.

The ski is 14 years old and I have never had to work on the engine or had engine work done. It had the original spark plugs until the year.

The oil is mineral based, and I think that it is no longer manufactured. The last case I bought I had to mail order, but it was only about $3.50 a quart.

Lou

Your statment about no work being done is kinda hard to believe, since in 96, all Rotax motors came with the grey Tempo fuel lines. If these are not changed, or even when you decide to change them, you have no choice but to go through the carbs and clean out the dissolved solids of these old fuel lines.

I'm pretty sure you aren't running the same plugs, since the electrodes over time erode. Over time, they will also build resistance and will decrease overall fuel range. You did come back and state you've only had it two years. So, I'm here to say that I'm positive these plugs are not original.

I'm also going to tell you that the oil you are running is not the recommended oil that BRP and Rotax requires for motor longevity. That Castrol oil is a TCW-3 oil. These oils are formulated to run at any rpm without fouling plugs. Our motors require an oil that maintains lubrication at variable rates of injection.

For this thread, please, only use an API-TC rated oil that is non NMMA (national marine manuafactures association) or TCW-3. TCW-3 is designed as a premix and easily disperses itself throughout the fuel tank when mixed. We inject our oils, so to use an oil that is designed to be mixed, isn't appropiate.

When you idle the Rotax, the injection pump is probably at a ratio of (theoretically speaking) 80:1 and when at WOT, about 50:1. The variable rate injection pump is designed to use just the right amount of oil in our engines for lubrication with a minimal amount that needs to be burned off.

If you use a TCW-3 oil, smoking, carbonizing and carbon fouling plugs will be normal, so carry a spare pair of plugs. Also, the TCW-3 oils used in outboard motors usually allow you to set your outboard up for different heat ranges. If you use the boat for slow speeds, trolling for fist, you'll want a hotter burning plug, to help burn off the excessive oil. If you use that motor for skiing or mostly WOT running, you'll want to burn a colder plug, since heat from running at speed will help to keep combustion occuring easily.

Don't use a TCW-3 oil in your Rotax. Yes, it will work. But, it will, over the long haul, reduce the life span of your motor.........:cheers:

LouDoo
06-26-10, 05:29 PM
I didn't say I never did any work on my SeaDoo, of course I have replaced a wear ring, replaced the fuel hoses, filters, fuel selector, etc. What I said is that I have never had to do any engine work!!!!! I consider engine work as work inside the engine.

seadoosnipe
06-26-10, 06:32 PM
I didn't say I never did any work on my SeaDoo, of course I have replaced a wear ring, replaced the fuel hoses, filters, fuel selector, etc. What I said is that I have never had to do any engine work!!!!! I consider engine work as work inside the engine.

Here, in the virtual world, what you read is all you can go by. So, a lot is left out that is not taken into account. But yes, you did say that you have had no engine work that needed to be performed.

I am surprised that your engine has run this long on a TCW-3 oil, since the Rotax motors are not designed to run this oil. I'd also recommend you continue to run that oil. Reasons are simple. Once you burn in a set of pistons or set up an engines operating conditions, it will likely wear itself in to the conditions it's being run. So, changing oil now could cause you more harm than good. But, I would not recommend an oil to anyone who is using an engine that requires a certain API designation. Your longevity in this motor is probably only one in a million.:hurray:

LouDoo
06-26-10, 07:48 PM
O.K., I agree with what you are saying however, since Castrol no longer makes this oil. What do I do when I run out? I've only got a couple of quarts left.

I was thinking Amsoil PWC mineral oil. I would like to go full synthetic but from what you're saying this is probably not a good idea.

Lou

SurfBeat
06-28-10, 10:20 PM
Here in Riverside, CA Wally's only peddles Quicksilver Premimum Plus which is only a TC-W3 oil, however, West Marine on Indiana sells Quicksilver Premimum for $28.00 which is rated not only TC-W3 but also API TC.

geoffrey
04-14-11, 02:40 PM
I'll just throw my 2 cents worth in here, the xp-s 2 full synthetic from Brp was developed for all of Brp's modern 2 stroke engines. That includes snowmobiles etc. Therefore, the range of temps it was designed for is quite broad, like -40 to 300, when was the last time you fired up your ski when it was below freezing? I feel the cold weather additives are part of what makes it so expensive. When other manufacturers make an oil for pwc's they don't need to worry about cold performance. I have always used xp-s 2, but the price has got me to look at alternatives, i think i'll go with the Mystic oil from now on.

LouDoo
04-14-11, 06:11 PM
I know I kinda stirred things up on this thread last year.

I am happy to report I switched to Quicksilver PWC 2 stroke mineral oil last year and have been using it for most of last year and this year. The ski has been running great, also the spark plugs are looking O.K.

Thanks for the help,

Lou

aquaman222
06-28-11, 12:04 PM
So in a 96 XP, which Quicksilver oil would you run? For some reason I always think synthetic is best, but I thought I heard synthetic was only for the newer 951 motors? I know for certain my local Wal-Mart carries Quicksilver.

LouDoo
06-28-11, 01:08 PM
Definitely the full synthetic, that's what I use in my XP. You have rave valves and they need the extra lubrication. Generally SeaDoo's with more than a 720 engine need full synthetic.

Lou

SurfBeat
06-28-11, 01:31 PM
IMO, Quicksilver PWC (silver container) which is a blend, unlike Quicksilver PWC (black container) which is full synthetic should suffice. Refer to your Owners Manual which will state emphatically whether you need a blend or full synthetic, then forget about the brand and go find an alternative to Sea Doo's brand.

In one way I am glad I replaced my Sea Doo's for Kawi's because now I can forget about the over priced API TC oils, BUT, from knowledge gained from Dr, Honda, I use a blend of TC W-3, WHICH YOU CAN'T USE.

fastboatman29212
06-28-11, 09:47 PM
Before I found the good info on this forum, I always used Sea Doo brand XP-S 2 stroke mineral oil in my 1997 Speedster, mostly because I was afraid not to.

For the purists among us (I'm not a purist BTW) I'll pass along that *********** sells Sea Doo brand oils for a great price. Just type Seadoo oil in the search box, Check the prices and compare/shop around. That's where I was buying it. Sea Doo brand XP-S 2 stroke mineral oil is currently $26.45 plus postage. Not bad.

http://www.***********/Sea-Doo-XP-S-Stroke-Mineral-Oil/dp/B001JSYMXI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1309311421&sr=8-2

Gamerse
07-30-11, 02:23 AM
I thought everyone had heard of quicksilver, it must be another one of those southern market things, like walmart..... Since 1989 I've seen quicksilver be adequate for pwc use. My buddies dad always used it, it was just plain quicksilver then, no synthetic or pwc option. That waverunner 500 never needed a rebuild, and was rode hard all the way untill 1996, when it was traded in for top dollar.
I can also say that we have ran it in our 1996 sts 1998 ZXI since they were purchased in 2000. The zxi has never been rebuilt, and the STS has only had one top end. We live on the river, seriously, we launch our skis in the front yard with ATVs, or whatever happens to have a 2" ball on it that day. I've always spent the extra dollar or two to get quicksilver over whatever walmart house brand oil was on the shelf. So thinking back on it, this is a great economy oil.
Castor oils have always been the buzz around here for those that can afford them. Personally I believe they just like the smell of burning money, and everyone else gets a whiff of it to, kinda funny castor based oils smell like burning plastic. http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=927+Castor+2-Stroke+Oil&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Stevego
08-03-11, 08:54 AM
Anyone know where to get the Quicksilver in Canada? I tried Wal-Marts in Ontario and Quebec and they do not carry it.

LouDoo
08-03-11, 11:44 AM
Quicksilver oil is marketed by Mercury Marine, so your Mercury Marine dealer should have it.

Lou

slowboatn
05-23-12, 12:25 AM
Excellent! I think I'll go with the Mystic from Academy. The only place I can get the xps 2 is an hour away from me. Add the fuel to get there and it would be way to expensive. Now, Academy is very close so is Wal Mart. Yall are awesome.